Because alot of people are anxious to see if they can score a good deal (including self) during the rebate frenzy here at year end, I thought I throw this out see what sticks...

agree or disagree:

Rebates give you LESS bargaining power:

I'm starting to think rebates can be like a big ol' carrot on a stick. They pressure you into a deal because you are afraid you'll have to pay more later when in fact you can always negotiate same deal - IF your willing to be patient and walk away.

Ford Trucks are overpriced!
I'm trying to buy an F250 right now but really believe they are overpriced! All the options they pile on take a basic truck from an already too high $20,000 to a whopping $48,000 for top-of-the-line F250. Yeah, its a great truck and lots of room and power but it won't be worth half that in 4 years. Prices are getting out of whack. Say its only money. But come on they still want 30 grand for a stripped 250.

There is alot of propaganda out there.
The hype that the big 3 are hurting is -- just propaganda. Just wait, soon they'll be going down the same road as American and United Airlines, using the threat of bankruptcy to force union concessions. Its the new best business strategy.

 

I can have a lot of fun with these.

Rebates give you LESS bargaining power:

According to Ford no, according to the salesman yes.
The salesman's objective is to sell you that truck at the highest price you'll pay. The dealer would be very happy to split the rebate with you. Of course not all dealers are the same. Today you can get close to 4000 off the sticker plus the rebate. You don't know the dealer's bottom dollar, how many they will sell at bottom dollar and how many they have sold at that this month, and the salesman start the negotiation asking for your price range so they can sell you the lowest cost truck in that price range.

Ford Trucks are overpriced!

I agree. Ford has had steep increases in base price over the past several years, and is now offering big rebates. Yes 2 + 2 = 4, and 2 + 2 + 2 - 2 is still equal to 4, only the second 4 is a better bargain than the first. The math though is not that simple becasue some options of the past are now standard, like A/C, ABS, rear disk brakes, overhead console, keyless remote, shift on the fly.


There is alot of propaganda out there.

I would say no. Maybe some dealers are doing real well, but the the big three are tight. I have heard that Ford and GM are talking about working together on designing one engine that they both will use. The driver is the cost of development. I have also heard that the same components are used to make different engines for the big three. Thinks like piston rods, pistons, crank shafts, valves, cams.

 

go to Edmunds.com..there you will see what the average price being paid in your ZiP is...thers a start..I just got mine at invoice with a Rhino Liner thrown in( a 400 dollar value) and Gap Insurance plus a free pair of Tony Lama smooth osteridge ropers plus they paid off the 7800 note on my ol truck after tellin me that my truck was appraised at 5500...with 0% for 60 months..I'm happy

 

Invoice means nothing anymore. Dealers are still making 4-6 points even at so-called invoice. Probably more. Service and parts revenue does not carry that fancy showroom folks.

And Edmunds is helpful for figuring options you want but its pretty clear whose side their on. Thinking that invoice makes the dealer nothing is bunk. And more of us are starting to figure that out.

Hey Dealer, you still gotta feed your children but this whole haggle game makes car buying a stressful experience for most of us. Might even sell more cars if prices got fixed across the board.

More and more we learn about things like holdbacks, special dealer incentives, carry over allowances, givebacks.

How about 18% off MSRP?

Yeah, I'm mad. How about that Saturn pricing model?

 

Buying is just like Saturn when you're fortunate enough to have one of the covented Ford 'plans' (eg: A, X, D, Z, etc)...

Walk in, look at the invoice which lists the A plan price... buy it.

Very simple.

 

I hear you ksystems it sucks to have to play these games when you go in. Next time I am going to try what I read on here from someone a while back. They built their truck from the Ford site then e-mailed some Ford dealers in their area and asked if the dealers had anything close and what was the price, and then also informed them that he sent this e-mail to the other dealers in the state.

Might not be a bad idea, it would be interesting in the feedback...

 

rebates:
=======

depends on how you look at it. if you first bargain on the price of the vehicle, come to an agreement with the dealer, and then apply the rebate, you're in good shape. otherwise, you let the dealer run the numbers, you just screwd yourself.
some dealers are more honest than others. I'm trying to work a deal right now and it turns out that salesmen at this dealer are paid a set amount per vehicle ($75). if they have certain other vehicles they are trying to push out the door, they spiffs on that. otherwise, it doesn't matter to them what price the vehicle sells out. however, keep in mind that each dealership is different in how they set up their salesmen compensation plan. some still do commission on percent of selling price, others want you to sell a set quota or more every month AND get them financed at the dealership, which makes them more money.

high prices:
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I would tend to agree with you there. compare your salary and buying power today than with 5-10 yrs ago. comparatively speaking, house prices have shot thru the roof when compared to trucks. however, I gotta have a place to put my family and since the mortgage rates are real low right now (historically speaking) , I can re-fi to cut the monthly payment and number of years left which will allow me to buy the truck I want. what really sucks is that in Texas you pay no income tax, only property tax. however, my property tax has gone up from $4000 to $5000 in the space of 7 years because of increased values. this really bites into my buying power, not the increase in truck prices. my salary has barely kept up with my ability to pay my property taxes, let alone increase in salary as I progress in my career.
in 7 yrs, MSRP of F150 supercab has only gone up a few thousand dollars. I had a '97 XLT f150 w/MSRP of @$25500. compare that to todays prices and you will see that it's not that bad.

 

cybearray - I hear you on property taxes...these forums seem to have a lot of Texan's hanging out here...must be that Truck Capital thang an' all! Get me started on THAT thread and we'll need a separate BBS.



BLANKET APOLOGY

also, at this time I'd like to offer my blanket apology for the year. I hereby apologize in general for all those I may have offended, am currently offending or may offend in the future with my rants about quality and high prices. I mean nothing personal even if you are a manufacturer or dealer slime.

 

That's classic. Can I use that?

 

I agree RockPick, that's good!

 

Aren't your property taxes capped per year unless there was a sale that year? That's how it works in MI.

As for vehicle costs, yes they are high, but studies show that cars are the most affordable they have been in years. Houses and some ofther things are not. MSRP's have skyrocketed in the last few years, but transactions prices have not. I priced out the equivalent of my 99 SC Lariat and sticker is about $3300 more, yet there is $4000 in rebates in my area. Are the number overpriced? If you don't buy, yes. But a lot of people are still buying.

To me, rebates = less money paid, but I get employee price on FoMoCo and DCX vehicles, supplier for GM, Nissan.